Gateway P-7811 FX: We've Got Upgrades
by Jarred Walton on August 15, 2008 5:00 AM EST- Posted in
- Laptops
Going for the Gold
For our first look at benchmarks of the P-7811, we thought it would be best to focus on comparisons to Gateway's other FX series laptops. We have earlier results from the P-6831, but since it has such a slow processor we also added results from the upgraded P-171XL. The P-171XL is no longer in production, but it provides a better indication of graphics performance when the CPU is not a bottleneck, as it has a Core 2 Duo X7900 (2.8GHz, 4MB cache) processor. It also ships with two 200GB hard drives in RAID 0, 4GB of RAM (but a 32-bit OS, so only 3GB is visible), and a WUXGA display. It had an initial launch price of $3000, which quickly dropped to $2500, and now it has been replaced by the $2000 MSRP ($1630 at TigerDirect) P-173XL - the primary difference being the inclusion of a T8300 processor instead of the X7900. Here are the three test configurations for this first look at the P-7811.
| Gateway P-6831 FX Test System | |
| Processor | Core 2 Duo T5450 (1.67GHz 2MB 667FSB) |
| Memory | 1x1024MB + 1x2048MB Samsung DDR2-667 5-5-5-15 |
| Graphics | NVIDIA GeForce 8800M GTS 512MB GPU/Shader/RAM Clocks: 500/1250/799 NVIDIA drivers: 167.46 |
| Display | 17" WXGA+ (1440x900) UltraBright (Samsung LTN170X2-L02) |
| Hard Drive | 250GB 5400RPM Western Digital (Scorpio WD2500BEVS-22UST0) |
| Optical Drive | Optiarc AD-7563A SuperMulti DVD+/-RW |
| Battery | 9-Cell 86WHr |
| Operating System | Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit |
| Gateway P-171XL FX Test System | |
| Processor | Core 2 Extreme X7900 (2.80GHz 4MB 667FSB) |
| Memory | 2x2048MB Samsung DDR2-667 5-5-5-15 |
| Graphics | NVIDIA GeForce 8800M GTS 512MB GPU/Shader/RAM Clocks: 500/1250/799 NVIDIA drivers: 175.95 (Hacked from LaptopVideo2Go.com) |
| Display | 17" WUXGA (1920x1200) Matte (Samsung LTN170WU-L02) |
| Hard Drive | 2x200GB Seagate Momentus 7200.2 in RAID 0 |
| Optical Drive | Toshiba DVDR/HD-DVD TS-L802A |
| Battery | 9-Cell 86WHr |
| Operating System | Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit |
| Gateway P-7811 FX Test System | |
| Processor | Core 2 Duo P8400 (2.26GHz 3MB 1066FSB) |
| Memory | 2x2048MB Samsung DDR3-1066 7-7-7-20 |
| Graphics | NVIDIA GeForce 9800M GTS 512MB GPU/Shader/RAM Clocks: 600/1250/799 NVIDIA drivers: 176.02 (beta from Gateway) |
| Display | 17" WUXGA (1920x1200) Glossy (AU Optronics AUO 1088) |
| Hard Drive | 200GB Seagate Momentus 7200.2 |
| Optical Drive | 8X SuperMulti DVD+/-RW |
| Battery | 9-Cell 86WHr |
| Operating System | Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit |
Note that we won't have all benchmarks on all three laptops; in particular, we no longer have the P-6831 for testing and so we were unable to run some of our latest benchmarks. We were able to run all of our tests on both the P-171XL and the P-7811. We do expect the P-7811 to perform faster in all of the gaming benchmarks, since the 9800M GTS offers more graphics horsepower because of the increased GPU core clocks. Similarly, we expect the P-171XL to outperform the other two configurations in application benchmarks that depend more on CPU and hard drive performance.
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JarredWalton - Monday, August 18, 2008 - link
You know, I used to feel the same way, and I still prefer non-glossy desktop displays. On laptops, though, the glossy LCDs frequently look better in terms of color and contrast. I've had the P-171XL and P-7811 sitting next to each other, and the glossy 7811 looks better in pretty much every way. The reflections are annoying at times, but in the right environment I definitely prefer it over a dimmer matte display.rjc - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
Sorry if i missed it - but was there any temperature info about the different components in the review?Personally own a 8600gt based laptop and the gpu temperatures are terrible, quickly into the 90's celcius as soon as i try to play a game. According to other users(at the notebook-review forums) i can expect this to worsen over time exceeding 100C, the more i play games the quicker the part degrades till it fails.
I didnt pay enough attention to the thermal perf of the laptop when buying, instead distracted way too much the performance graphs like the ones present in the above review. Certainly not going to make that mistake again.
Would the stability issues mentioned in the last page possibly be temperature related rather than a driver issue?
JarredWalton - Saturday, August 16, 2008 - link
When the fan speeds kick up, temperatures are fine, but the P-7811 BIOS appears to need adjustment right now because the fan spins at lower RPMs most of the time. (The 171XL and 6831 didn't have this issue - it could just be a faulty unit as well, as this is prerelease hardware.)Exhaust temps are hitting the 50C range at load on the GPU, and the core is hitting even higher temps. Instability could be heat related, as I mentioned on the concluding page. I'm hoping Gateway can provide a BIOS update so that I can include more details on the final roundup next week. (If you have an 8600M GT hitting 90C, there's definitely a problem with the design or BIOS.)
The roundup will also cover temps in more detail, as well as LCD quality, noise levels, and tests from other competing notebooks. Stay tuned.
rjc - Sunday, August 17, 2008 - link
If the fan speed is upped make sure you redo your battery tests. Both dell and hp have provided fan speed fixes that upped the fan to almost full all the time and users are complaining about the noise and adverse effect on battery life. Also running the fan at full was not the original design and may overheat the fan motor itself causing the fan to prematurely die, likely followed quickly by the whole notebook.The current rumor is something is wrong in the power plane design on the G84/G86 and possibly G92/G94 which causes excessive heating and eventually cracks the surrounding die. Honestly if you somehow can i really recommend investigating this a little, your readers will appreciate it.
There are clues - the nvidia $200m charge, the halving of their share price, the dell and hp announcements. Dell discontinuing their xps line of gaming laptops, and except for quadros dont appear to be selling nvidia gpus at all in notebooks.
Re exhaust temps. I have been measuring core temps with riva tuner. Have upped the fan but it doesnt make much difference 5C tops. The thermal performance is consistent with most other users i can see. Some people have faulty units which run at 10C higher ie over 100C during gaming.
Sorry for going on so much...am just trying to give you the experience of a current "gaming" laptop owner. At the moment i honestly would advise other people to steer clear of these products entirely.
JarredWalton - Monday, August 18, 2008 - link
"The current rumor is something is wrong in the power plane design on the G84/G86 and possibly G92/G94 which causes excessive heating and eventually cracks the surrounding die. Honestly if you somehow can i really recommend investigating this a little, your readers will appreciate it."As far as I can tell, the *rumors* being circulated by some very anti-NVIDIA groups are blowing things way out of proportion. NVIDIA couldn't provide any specific details (because of OEM relations and such), but failing mobile GPUs does not seem to be a rampant problem. I know that personally I have not had a single NVIDIA mobile GPU fail on me or anyone in my family during the past several years, and believe me the stress testing I put laptops through is quite intense.
Yes, there have been failures, but what percent are we talking about? NVIDIA can't say, the OEMs won't say, and you've got a few crazies out there pretending that 90% of mobile NVIDIA GPUs are failing. The actual cause of failures appears to be rapid heating and cooling of the GPU substrate (according to NVIDIA). So a modified fan algorithm is really all that's needed so that temps don't flip back and forth between say 70C and 90C... a constant 80C would be better. (Just guessing on the numbers, though - I didn't get details on temps, again because of OEM concerns.)
Anyway, from what I've heard, the $200M should be way more than is actually needed to address the failed GPUs... and it is only mobile GPUs. Don't put too much in stock prices, as a rumor can cause stock panic whether it is true or just malicious claims from a competitor.
My personal advice is: don't expect desktop performance from a gaming laptop, but if you're willing to spend more for the mobility option there are some decent laptops out there. Right now, I'd take the P-173XL over the P-7811, just because of the stability problems I've experienced, but I think they can fix it easily enough.
rjc - Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - link
"As far as I can tell, the *rumors* being circulated by some very anti-NVIDIA groups are blowing things way out of proportion. NVIDIA couldn't provide any specific details (because of OEM relations and such), but failing mobile GPUs does not seem to be a rampant problem. I know that personally I have not had a single NVIDIA mobile GPU fail on me or anyone in my family during the past several years, and believe me the stress testing I put laptops through is quite intense. "There is an article in the WSJ today:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121910081640451139...">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121910081640451139...
As the article mentions HP and Dell have both extended their warranties specially to cover this. The analyst says that $200m might not be enough to cover it.
Roughly doing the maths at $400 per repair $200m will cover 500k repairs...As nvidia sold around 30m units last year thats 1 in 60 replaced. Of course if the OEM is covering part of the cost the failure rate is likely higher.
I realise when doing reviews the fun bit is all the performance figures, how many frames you get for your $....some time spent on less attractive things like how good the warranty is, ease of rma process and whether the system can run in a stable state for long periods would better help customers make a decision they are later happy with.
As long as your sure you are not selling them a lemon ;-)
disorder - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
For people that are interested in a bargain, I've seen the P-6831 at a little over $1000 at some Chicago area BBs. It has been discontinued because the P-7811 has shipped.Rekonn - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
Thanks for an excellent review!rvikul - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
Any comment on the overall build quality of these Gateway laptops? I am considering getting one of the gaming laptops and durability/build quality is my primary concern.I own an eMachines (later acquired by Gateway) laptop and it developed a crack within a few months on the back just under the screen.
Thanks
JarredWalton - Friday, August 15, 2008 - link
Overall build quality seems good but not great. It's still a plastic chassis, so if you drop it or something it could break. I do know some people with a 6831 that have used it for the past ~6 months with no problems.