AMD Phenom II X4 940 & 920: A True Return to Competition
by Anand Lal Shimpi on January 8, 2009 12:00 AM EST- Posted in
- CPUs
Socket-AM2, AM2+ and AM3: Backwards Compatibility
AMD fixed the cache size issue, it fixed the power consumption problem, and we even got higher clock speeds with Phenom II. What I didn’t expect was something more. AMD has always been a manufacturer for the customers. Over the past couple of years the problem has been that their processors haven’t really been desired by consumers, but prior to that the AMD that we know and love designed processors for today’s applications with a minimal number of platform changes between processors.
Phenom II carries AMD’s consumer focused nature to the next level. Today’s Phenom II parts are designed for Socket-AM2+ motherboards. AMD doesn’t qualify any of them for use on Socket-AM2 motherboards, but there’s nothing stopping a motherboard maker from enabling support on a standard AM2 motherboard. You will need a BIOS update.
Next month, AMD will launch the first Socket-AM3 Phenom II processors. The main difference here is that these parts will support DDR3 memory. Oh no, another socket, right? Wrong.
Socket-AM3 Phenom II parts will also work in Socket-AM2+ motherboards, the two are pin-compatible. When in an AM2+ board, these upcoming Phenom II processors will work in DDR2 mode, but when in an AM3 board they will work in DDR3 mode. How cool is that?
This unique flexibility is largely due to the work that was done on the DDR2 and DDR3 specs at JEDEC. The number of signaling pins and the signaling pins themselves between DDR2 and DDR3 don’t actually change on the memory controller side; the main differences are routing and termination at the memory socket side. AMD just needed a physical memory interface on Phenom II that could operate at both 1.8V (DDR2) and 1.5V (DDR3) as well as work with timings for either memory technology. The potential was there to do this on the first Phenom, it just wasn’t ready in time, but with the Socket-AM3 Phenom II processors you’ll be able to do it.
While I’m not sure how practically useful the AM3/AM2+ flexibility will be, I’d rather have it than not. Being able to take one CPU and stick it in two different sockets, each with a different memory technology, and have it just work is the most customer-centric move I’ve ever seen either company make. AMD told me that this plan was in the works before the original Phenom ever launched, somewhere in the 2004 timeframe. AMD was active in JEDEC on making the DDR2 and DDR3 specs similar enough that this one-CPU, two-sockets approach could work.
One of the biggest risks AMD faced when it chose to integrate the memory controller was what would happen if there was a sudden shift in memory technology. With the upcoming Socket-AM3 versions of Phenom II, that risk is completely mitigated by the fact that a single chip can work with either memory technology. It gives OEMs a tremendous amount of flexibility to ship systems with either DDR2 or DDR3 memory depending on which is more cost effective. It also ensures a much smoother transition to DDR3.
The downside for AMD is that because Socket-AM3 Phenom II chips are right around the corner, it makes little sense to buy one of these Socket-AM2+ Phenom II processors - at least not until we know the pricing and availability of the Socket-AM3 versions.
Slower North Bridge Frequency for AM2+, Faster when AM3 Arrives
An extra benefit of the Socket-AM3 Phenom II processors is that their uncore (memory controller + L3 cache) will be clocked at 2.0GHz instead of 1.8GHz like the two processors launching today. By comparison the Phenom 9850 and 9950 both have a 2.0GHz uncore clock; AMD had to go down to 1.8GHz to launch the Phenom II at 2.8GHz and 3.0GHz today.
As 45nm yields improve AMD will increase the uncore frequency, but today it's at 1.8GHz and the AM3 chips will have it at 2.0GHz. The Core i7 runs its uncore at 2.13GHz for the 920 and 940, and 2.66GHz for the 965.
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Beno - Monday, January 12, 2009 - link
fanboys help keep them alive.if more ppl started looking at AMD again, then Intel will be scared, so us the consumers will be happy because of prices.
intel has been greedy and overpriced their c2 because there was no competetion at that time.
garydale - Friday, January 9, 2009 - link
I generally buy AMD processors for two reasons. The first is that I am not a gamer so I'm looking for cost-effective business application solutions. I'd rather double the memory than increase the processor speed, so AMD works well at the price points I build to.Secondly, I believe in the need for competition. With the power PC processor virtually absent from the consumer market and there being little else to choose from for the desktop market, AMD is Intel's only real competitor. So long as AMD has chips that are good enough to compete with Intel's on price/performance, I prefer to buy them.
If Via got their Cyrix processors up to a decent speed, I might be tempted to switch to them, but let's face it, they don't really compete in this market. So in a two-way race, we need to put our money behind the underdog to prevent a monopoly.
I've been buying ATI cards too for similar reasons. Nice to see that AMD's making advances in both areas.
To be clear, I've got nothing against Intel, at least not since the Pentium fiasco, but I think everyone will agree that having multiple firms competing is better for consumers than having one company dominate (Windows 95, 98, Millenium Edition, Vista come to mind). :)
aeternitas - Friday, January 9, 2009 - link
Much of your post should go next to the Webster definition of "AMDfanboi"If you want true competition, buy the better product. I got my sweet A64. I will now consider P2 over a C2D, but because of price/performance/watt alone.
Certified partner - Friday, January 9, 2009 - link
"Blender is one of the few tests that doesn't strongly favor the Core i7, in fact it does not favor them at all. Here the Core 2 Quad Q9650 is the fastest processor, followed by the Phenom II X4 940 and the Phenom II X4 920."http://www.techspot.com/review/137-amd-phenom2-x4-...">http://www.techspot.com/review/137-amd-phenom2-x4-...
"Blender shows Phenom II less competitive than the other 3D rendering tests we've seen thus far."
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?...">http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?...
Both can't be true. Explanations would be highly appreciated. I suggest, that anandtech ask techspot about the test settings. Blender is capable of using several threads but I'm not sure wether the optimization is automated. Please, play with the settings. For example, 8*8 (render) tiles can benefit from 8 threads while 1*1 can't.
Max1 - Friday, January 9, 2009 - link
How much money has paid Intel to you for this "testing"? You have tested productivity of processors only on two games. In both games productivity of Core 2 is above. In one of them much more above, but it happens seldom. Other tests show, that productivity of Core 2 Quad in part of games is above. In part of games productivity Phenom II of same frequency is above. Why there is so a lot of coding and synthetic tests where Intel is faster, and as always there are no other applications? Why you continue to say lies, as earlier liars for money of Intel that Northwood is ostensibly faster, than Barton.strikeback03 - Friday, January 9, 2009 - link
I'm surprised how long it took the fanbois to start commenting on this article. Didn't really get rolling until several pages into the comments.JimmiG - Friday, January 9, 2009 - link
Bit disappointing that it's still slower than Core2 clock for clock. But given the performance of the original Phenom, I think the CPU performs as expected. A big leap for AMD. Unfortunately for them, Intel made an even bigger leap when they switched from Netbust to Core2.Also a bit concerned about this supposed "backwards compatibility". Many of the original 790FX boards, my M3A32-MVP Deluxe in particular, will not work with AM3 CPUs because Asus does not plan on releasing a BIOS update. Of course that's the fault of second-rate mobo companies like Asus, and not the fault of AMD. I'll probably end up getting a DDR2 PII-940 to replace my X4 9650, but I'll wait until the prices have dropped some.
anandtech02148 - Friday, January 9, 2009 - link
Just wait till Am3 socket comes out, Intel will have to make a slight cheaper version of x58chipset. Is that sweat i see on their forehead?Amd buy Via's Nano and give them a 2 prong attack.
RogueAdmin - Friday, January 9, 2009 - link
AMD has gone a long way to improving the performance of its processors, and everyone should go out and buy them. They need our support, and without it we will have to put up with whatever Intel decide to give us. And everyone here I think remembers the P4 days, let them not come again!The AM2 /2+ /3 platform is by far the easiest upgrade option. No need to worry if your NB chipset supports the latest FSB or RAM, because its all integrated into the CPU. A feature than Intel has copied in its new i7. Along with the monlithic quad core design, and level 3 cache. Also do not forget that AMD released the first x86-64 CPU, and intel basically complied to its x86-64 code to be compatible with the software developed for it.
i7 is fast, very fast. But do you need that kind of performance in your everyday life? i7 is designed for workstation's hence the benchmarks of video encoding and 3D applications. Gamers would be better off getting a top of the line GPU. Is your CPU 100% utilized 24/7?
I saw a comment about the 2 year old Core 2 Quad being faster, only in Far Cry 2, that one test. And I would rather play Crysis anyday.
Since its release Intel has tweaked the performance of these with new cores no end.
Sorry I digest.... lol
Keep things competitive, buy AMD. Fanboy or no, let the price wars rage on.
aeternitas - Friday, January 9, 2009 - link
1. Most people use their everyday system to *work* too.2. Dont compare i7 to P2. Youll just look like youre really reaching and a fanboy.
3. You dont -Need- anything better than a A64 for everyday tasks. Depending on how long you wanna wait though, you will go to a better system. That point about not -needing- better hardware has always been ridiculous and only applies to grandmas and people that use the computer for browsing and music. Those people dont care about this area in computer so its moot!
P2 is great, but be realistic. Its competing against C2 right now. Comparing technicalities and -who was firsts- doesnt provide more FPs in anything. It just makes for flame fodder. The numbers speak for themselves and I think this article did a good job in putting the P2 in its place. As a great alternative for people looking to upgrade from older than C2 hardware.