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  • ads295 - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    It's staggering, the pace at which Huawei is moving forward. It seems like just yesterday that they were getting flak here on AT for a 28nm chipset with mediocre graphics that struggled to keep up with Qualcomm. (Kirin 930)
  • r3loaded - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Easy to make rapid progress if you can crib off the work of others, and have the economic, legal and political backing of a $14tn country and its military.
  • levizx - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    And your proof?
  • s.yu - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link

    With the opacity of China's internal operations It's impossible to hold evidence of Chinese activity to the level as the rest of the world.
    Back in June a known industry insider and sole dissenter of the Party's approach to its telecoms industry was silenced with all his columns and official accounts deleted, without this individual, whatever Huawei says (like how their 5G basestations are the world's most efficient, which was proven by China Unicom's internal slides leaked by this person to be false) has to be taken as gospel because nobody who knows the truth is willing to stand against them.
  • levizx - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link

    Yes, sure, the Drumpf administration is so transparent.
  • s.yu - Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - link

    Indeed, there are leakers in every level of the administration. Not the case for Xi.
  • Oliseo - Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - link

    They answered your question and you responded with an allegation of your own, to whit, where is your proof?
  • levizx - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Apple has economic, legal and political backing of the world's largest economy, I don't see Apple being taxed extra. And I didn't hear your complaints about them simply cripple other companies then buy low. Most recently Imgtec and Intel.
  • s.yu - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link

    "Apple has economic, legal and political backing of the world's largest economy"
    Apple doesn't get interest-free loans from policy banks.
    Apple got sued for not leaving backdoors for the FBI and CIA, it doesn't come to that for Huawei as they gleefully leave backdoors for the Party. Apple and MS at least went down with a fight, which brought attention to how much leisure of surveillance the Party is actually asking for, and Google left.
    I'm not aware of the US government marketing Apple everywhere they go, but Huawei is often promoted on many occasions by the Chinese government.
  • Oliseo - Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - link

    You talk about how terrible the American government is for crippling your countrys companies, whilst your countrys government is crippling the citizens of Hong Kong and it's Muslim population for daring to have their own opinion.

    Do you know what that is? It's called fascism. So please, take your good little fascist self and FO lecturing people in the west for their faults and do something to stop the BS in your own government.

    There's a good little propaganda peddler.
  • levizx - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Yet you accuse Huawei of something without proof what US companies are ACTUALLY doing, with proof.
  • vortmax2 - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    It's a little more frightening when a purely communist country is backing vs. a democratic republic. You can surely agree with that, right?
  • SyukriLajin - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    yet it's the "democratic" country that's doing the banning(because of accusations they can't even back up). sure, china restrict outside countries from doing business with their people(business which might not even be profitable in the first place, their people prefer chinese product because of the locality), but they have never stopped american companies from making billions in profit by using their manufacturing capabilities to get cheap hardware and then selling it back to americans for multiple times more.
  • Alistair - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Chinese tariffs are always higher than American ones. If the U.S. wants to raise their tariffs to equal Chinese tariffs, I hardly have sympathy when the Chinese raise theirs in response.

    Remember before the trade war? On March 8, 2018, Musk tweeted, “An American car going to China pays 25% import duty, but a Chinese car coming to the US only pays 2.5%, a tenfold difference.”
  • sumone - Sunday, September 22, 2019 - link

    Well then have you ever seen a Chinese car on the street? Meanwhile Buick and Tesla are everywhere in Shanghai. Otoh China's tariff is 3.5% on average, while the US is at 1.7% in 2018, that's not a very staggering difference.
  • s.yu - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link

    The same fake news by Huawei drones.
    Huawei sold to Iran through a shell, this is reason enough, the rest is simply bargaining leverage.
  • yannigr2 - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    A democratic republic that is run by the dollar, is not less frightening than a communist country. China didn't started the civil war in Syria that cost hundred of thousands of lives, while forcing millions to abandon their country.
  • Dorkaman - Saturday, September 7, 2019 - link

    It was Syrian students and other young that started it all. They had hoped for an Arab Spring in their own counyry but Assad started arresting, beating and forced dissapearing. Then the demonstrators got angry and turned into rebels and militia, We also have extremists and terrorists, but it is mainly Shia vs Sunni civil war. Whod thought God would split his religion into two parts...

    But I digress.
  • gund8912 - Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - link

    China subsidies all industries in China, let's agree to that first.
    American government doesn't subsidize American companies.
    It is almost impossible tp prove this because documents are not released to public, unlike US where government has to release information as per right to information request, Chinese government doesn't have to do this.
  • sumone - Sunday, September 22, 2019 - link

    Big AG, Boeing and banks get subsidized all the time.
  • evernessince - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    What type of country a company is headquartered in is irrelevant to the conversation. It's not like America has any ground to stand on either, it hardly represents any of the principles it was founded on any more.
  • s.yu - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link

    That's funny, neither is China.
    To think China was founded by workers and peasants now with puppet unions with zero bargaining power, no right to strike, and farmers who go bankrupt on the whims of Party policy who tear their farms down on one day citing new environmental rules and tell them to rebuild on another from high pork prices.
  • gund8912 - Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - link

    Well at least US doesn't have 2 billion Security Cameras, and Americans can elect another President if they don't like them in 2 more years, Chinese don't even have that option.
  • brunis.dk - Saturday, September 7, 2019 - link

    Not sure an corporate owned oligarchy constitutes a democracy. But keep dreaming your slave loving, aids ridden, ICE concentration camp shithole is a democracy.
  • sweetca - Saturday, September 7, 2019 - link

    U mad bro?
  • s.yu - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link

    Typical white left? If you're such an illlegals lover go take one into your own home and cover all their expenses, don't waste other taxpayers' money on illegal aliens. Hell tear down the border if every illegal has a white left pledged to take responsibility for them!
  • gund8912 - Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - link

    Where did illegal Immigration come from into this discussion ?
    Actually Obama deported more illegal immigrants than Trump did, check the numbers from DHS, Trump is just talking to make his followers happy, because Trump is loose with facts.
    https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/yearboo...
  • levizx - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link

    Nope, it more frightening that a country where money talks and a dumbsh*t like Drumpf can be President.
  • gund8912 - Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - link

    Americans have an option to elect a different President in 2 years, Can China do it if they want to ? Xi just decided that he will be the leader of China for ever.
  • levizx - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link

    And your "democratic country" is pretty much a laughing stock and an aspiring dictatorship.
  • sumone - Sunday, September 22, 2019 - link

    China is communist in name only. I would go as far as saying Japan is more communist than China today.
  • melgross - Saturday, September 7, 2019 - link

    Nothing you’ve said is true.
  • Oliseo - Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - link

    Can we just please Ban these government sponsored Chinese propagandists. It's really tedious having them spout their facist nonsense 24/7
  • gund8912 - Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - link

    They Claim that China is a Democratic Country, i don't understand how this can be.
  • s.yu - Friday, September 13, 2019 - link

    Somewhere between the lines of the Party's doctrine there is the word "democracy", but it doesn't operate like one in all practical senses.
    They invented "single-candidate election" so whether you vote or not does not make a difference, and all the candidates(which are screened beforehand by the Party)--therefore the elected, or at least 95% of them vote to support whatever the Politburo Standing Committee puts forward.
  • Hrel - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link

    Seriously, Maybe the Trump administration should look into Anandtech for shilling for Huawai/The Federal Royal Family of China.
  • Dimathiel - Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - link

    Why should I believe you? You’re obviously an American and lie to justify your positions, just like your leader.
  • Meteor2 - Monday, September 16, 2019 - link

    Eh? HiSilicon have licensed ARM cores and are having them made in Taiwan. What's been "cribbed"?
  • Fidelator - Tuesday, October 8, 2019 - link

    Well that speaks a lot for what is wrong with the current patent system, look at how much progress they've made with laxer laws in that respect.

    Technology moves forward so quickly that technology related patents need to be shorter to drive up competition
  • Alistair - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    It's staggering? The worst performance increases ever seen year over year in the ARM space yet? The same CPU core a year later, and 8 percent GPU speed increases over the S855? Have we ever seen such a slow pace of improvement? Does anyone actually read anything but hype? Do they actually look at the specs or the slides?
  • Alistair - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    My bad, I mean 9-10% CPU improvements, and only 6% GPU improvements... edit button...
  • Alistair - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Also didn't Anandtech cover the Samsung Exynos 980 announcement 2 days ago? No? The world's first integrated 5G modem announcement, not Huawei's, and also it uses Cortex A77, unlike this one using last year's A76 CPU. Samsung and Huawei are both using the same Mali G76 graphics. So this article comes of weird to me, with the lowest CPU and GPU improvements we've seen to date, and claiming first but it isn't first...
  • infamous2456 - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    The exynos 980 was an announcement and its gonna appear on the market on 2020. Meanwhile the Kirin 990 5g is probably gonna be in the market way before Christmas time. And the 4g version even sooner(thats why they didnt have time to implement the a77. If they were launching 6 months from now then it would be a different story. And yes, the pace with which Hisilicon has improved (that means compared to itself) is staggering. It went from being an uncompetitive, forgetable player to being a higly competitive, cutting edge and reliable SoC designer in just a few year time. That's no easy fit. It doesnt mean they are the best at everything they do but overall i would call it a success story
  • gund8912 - Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - link

    Meanwhile the Kirin 990 5g is probably gonna be in the market way before Christmas time.
    Huawei is known to announce tech before it is ready just to claim "Worlds First" and delay the release.
  • ZolaIII - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Yes it did!
  • tuxRoller - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    "
    That announcement wasn't for their flagship.
  • tuxRoller - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    "To date, neither Qualcomm, nor Samsung, (nor Apple), have a unified flagship chip design that is near commercialization."

    The author is speaking about flagship chipsets. Otherwise they would've mentioned the Qualcomm 6&7 series with integrated modem (which also supports the mm spectrum, unlike Huawei's).
    The wording is strange, though. I doubt that other companies won't introduce integrated 5G modems early next year, which would seem to contradict the "near commercialization" comment.
  • Alistair - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link

    I see, fair enough. Samsung announced a high tier almost flagship (2 x A77, not 4 x A77), but not the flagship.
  • levizx - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    You obviously don't know how to read. It's 6% over 855.
  • Alistair - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    "You obviously don't know how to read. It's 6% over 855" is your response to "The same CPU core a year later, and 8 percent GPU speed increases over the S855?"

    lol, I specifically said over the 855...
  • s.yu - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link

    I don't even believe these figures, remember how PUBG renders differently for Adreno and Mali? The Mali simply has less of a workload.
  • fred666 - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    That's what I was going to say. 6-10% improvement over S855 which is on phones released 6 months ago is not impressive.
  • rocky12345 - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Actually 6 months is not all that long but whatever. 6-10% over a S855 is actually pretty decent considering the S855 is pretty fast for a mobile chip. My question is how much of a gain do they have over their own older SoC if it's more than 6-10% for CPU and more than 6% for GPU than that is actually impressive going from one gen to the next.

    Of coarse Qual's S955 or whatever they call it) will be faster yet again but at this point mobile chips are getting so fast for the meager tasks they have to do that it really does not matter much any more unless you are a spec sheet junky or benchmark beasty that always has to have the highest scores on the planet.
  • fred666 - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    6 months wouldn't be long if their chip was out in a phone but it isn't. It might take another 3-6 months.
  • Alistair - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    It's not fast enough to make it a better choice over buying an older and cheaper Snapdragon 855 phone.
  • ads295 - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    I'm talking about Huawei's progress in the past few years, not the Kirin 990's advantages over S855. Semiconductor performance in general is advancing more slowly now. And all of these players are using designs based on ARM IP.
    What matters more is that a company that was obscure just a few years ago is at the bleeding edge of technology today.
  • Lolimaster - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    kirin 990 is basically an 855+ with technically way better performance mp10 to mp16 vs adreno 630 to 640 where the gpu improvement is what 10%?
  • yannigr2 - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    That pace is the reason US government make them a target. Can you imagine Huawei being the new Apple in 2-3 years? They couldn't accept that.
  • peevee - Friday, September 13, 2019 - link

    What progress? It is still A76/A55 cores, just as last year.
  • s.yu - Saturday, September 14, 2019 - link

    There's effectively zero progress on the CPU side(they moved to an improved process with the 5G version but that's TSMC's progress); on the GPU side they finally cram a few more cores in, they were bound to take this step somewhere down the road since they've been intentionally holding back in this area, but whether or not it could catch up to Adreno remains to be seen; where there's "progress" is the NPU and 5G modem where there's little to no use as of now, especially the SA support.

    Even with the CCP's aggressive push of 5G in China, there will only be NSA 5G in the central areas of about a dozen major cities by 2022, by then this Kirin will long be obsolete, and transition to SA will only start by then.

    We'll see which sheep buy devices with the 5G version of this chip. There will be many in China, undoubtedly.
  • Kishoreshack - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Need to see more competition in SOC space
    Not happy with Qualcomm

    Snapdragon launch candence is quite unusual
    they announce new soc in December
    which gets implemented in phones by Feb March next year

    Arm launches new architecture in June
    soo Qualcomm chips are already outdated
    looks like good competition will make them competitive
  • Kishoreshack - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Why no ARM 77 & MALI 77 ?
    Are these people really content with what they have
    they have no intention to push the performances up?
  • Ian Cutress - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    That question is explicitly answered in the text.
  • pcslide - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Nope, the text didn't answer why no Mali G77. I am OK with their pretext on CPU side. But why no Mali G77? Is G77 a huge leap in terms of GPU efficiency. If they can not deliver, they should admit it doesn't meet their time frame, instead of feeding crap to the press.
  • Lodix - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Agree. Even their excuse for the CPU is lame. Using the Exynos 980 as a reference of clocking when it is a mid range chip.
  • Ian Cutress - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    I did have it in, it must have been edited out.

    Simply put, G77 isn't ready yet for mass production, and Huawei has a generation of experience with G76 in order to refine the design for power/die area, which helped with moving to 16core
  • eriri-el - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    As you guys are throwing two terms around that can be confusing, I would like clarification. Is 'unified' and 'intergrated' different? Just after reading the Exynos 980 article on this site stating that Samsung is the first to announce an integrated 5G modem, I read this Kirin 990 article only to see that Huawei has announced the first unified 5G modem, while others including Samsung haven't yet. This is confusing me. I don't care about who did it first. I want to know if these two implementations are different or not (unified vs integrated?)
  • Ian Cutress - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Andrei wrote up the Samsung 980; Huawei is still claiming it's the first. Perhaps with additional qualifiers.
  • Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    The Exynos 980 was announced first but depending on availability the Kirin 990 5G might be first to market.
  • zsydeepsky - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    There are two types of 5G tech, NSA & SA.
    NSA is a compatible version for cheap upgrade from 4G infrastructure, has better speed but without massive connection capability. So it's not for age of IoT, just a temporary solution.

    Almost all 5G solutions you see except Huawei's can only support NSA.

    I guess that's why they are called "first unified 5G SoC"
  • Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    > Almost all 5G solutions you see except Huawei's can only support NSA.

    Literally the X50 is the only commercial 5G silicon which is NSA only, everything else does both.
  • s.yu - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link

    You can run IoT on 4G, hardly anything really needs the low latency. Your fridge, your lights, your AC, your home security cameras are fine with a 80ms latency, it's not like you're operating a turret through them to shoot down burglars.
  • zsydeepsky - Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - link

    4G or NSA can't handle the massive connection. which means...it's ok when there are not many devices out there, but when lots of IoT devices required the network connection, SA 5G will be the only valid option.
  • s.yu - Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - link

    I don't get this, how's this different from WiFi? Not many are going to be able to afford that many IoT devices, not even in a couple decades, those who do can use their own APs, the nicer APs support hundreds of connections.
    I know it's overkill but having had assorted connection issues with routers up to ~$200, I now use Ubnt's UAP-AC-HD and this should support 500 users, and it's stability for home use is unparalleled.
  • FunBunny2 - Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - link

    "it's not like you're operating a turret through them to shoot down burglars."

    in Texas we are.
  • s.yu - Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - link

    Alright, priority 5G coverage for Texas then!
  • RoyceTrentRolls - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    "2.2 Ghz A77" sounds like a reference to the Exynos 980 on Samsung's 8LPP. I'm not sure how similar that is to 7FF+.
  • brakdoo - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Looking at E9820 we can say with conviction that 8LPP is crap.
  • halcyon - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Glad to see Huawei marching forward so fast. Yes, architecture vs manufacturing node seems to be the forever-issue.

    IFF ARM figures for A77 are correct (CPU perf +20-25% cf A76), then having 2xA76@2.86Ghz vs 2xA77@2.2Ghz may indeed prove to be a wise choice, at least in performance, if not in energy consumption.

    To me it feels like Kirin990 is still more of a 980+ for them, as the CPU and GPU cores stay relatively the same (sans more units and cache, now separating the NPU from the discussion).

    It'll be interesting to see what they do for Kirin next iteration.

    Now the final point: if one is outside of China, will we really see this SoC in phones that can actually be bought and used (incl. Google framework/apps) in 2019?
  • BoneAT - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Any info on 4K / 60 FPS recording especially with Mate 30 being rumored to focus on video?
  • SydneyBlue120d - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    And what about AV1 encoding?
  • tuxRoller - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Zero chance of that.
  • obama gaming - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link

    reason why?
  • tuxRoller - Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - link

    Too soon. The bitstream was frozen 17 months ago.
  • abufrejoval - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Wonderful hardware, but without root it's all for naught!

    I wonder if Huawei will change its stance on root and custom-ROMs now that they are looking for growth and political support in what's left of Europe.
  • rantao333@hotmail.com - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    same old story like Huawei claimed of 1st 5g modem in the world, balong 5000 was never actually ready to ship when they announced, not even in the 1st half of 2019. The international unit was only shipped on July . for china market , it was on 15th august. in the same time, Samsung already shipped 1 million units of 5g phones in korea alone.

    Huawei has the history of overclaim / false claim for the sake of marketing purpose. look at their hongmeng os, developer download the apk kit and found nothing inside.
  • s.yu - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link

    Wow, I've learned a lot about their false advertising (Samsung's Exynos 980 announcement is simply taking a leaf from their book) but the Hongmeng is a first.
  • SanX - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Noticed almost all graphs visually exaggerate new design by the factor of 10x in MOST viewgraphs? They say about 6% advantage but their bar charts show 60%. Hahahaha. That smells.
  • SanX - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    ANANDTECH: Each and every poster wrote you that you are the last tech site not having EDIT/DELETE buttons to change the typos. Fire your sysadmin finally :)
  • NICOXIS - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    it's really ironic to be using a comment system from the '90 on a tech-focused website...
  • Great_Scott - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    The real irony here is that it's a better comment system than most "modern" sites... those that still even have comments, that is...
  • ksec - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    TSMC 7nm+ has 10% density improvement over 7nm, and yet the 5G version is 10% large, i.e the NPU and 5G modem represent 20%+ increase in Die Size, I doubt the big NPU makes up of 10% die size, and even if it did, that is 10% increase only for 5G modem.

    5G Modem is expensive.
  • anonomouse - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    bigger GPU + system cache as well. will be hard to determine how large the modem part is until someone gets some die photos in the wild
  • s.yu - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link

    It's bigger but Mali is a couple generations behind Adreno in terms of both die space efficiency and power efficiency.
  • dudedud - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    60% more GPU cores, and extra cache will definitely add much more die size area.
  • s.yu - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link

    It is, they're on a better process, incorporated the modem, and could still only claim a ~20% die size advantage to SD855+X50.
  • BoneAT - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Ian/Andrei: any idea why first gen 7nm node for the regular 990? That's gonna be in the majority of Huawei/Honor flagships till late 2020 and already lost the efficiency battle to the 7nm+ 990 5G. Matter of fact, it's a lost battle if all Exynos, Apple and Qualcomm HESOCs use the EUV lithography. Did they run out of time? 7nm+ too expensive? Or no real-life performance/watt difference anyway?
  • Ian Cutress - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Likely capacity and/or experience. Huawei knows the regular 7nm process yields and voltage/frequency curves very well, and it's likely they'll end up selling more 4G chips than 5G chips. Putting both 990 4G and 990 5G on EUV might end up a throughput issue, or they just wanted to play safe with a known implementation at this point. It's all. About time to market, and risk (990 5G will come later)
  • Anymoore - Saturday, September 7, 2019 - link

    Agreed. Also note die size did not reduce but expanded. EUV-specific layout may require rotating blocks toward the chip edge (see their patent US9091930)
  • eastcoast_pete - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Thanks Ian! Two questions:
    1. Any mention or believable rumor about seeing the 990 or a derivative in a ultraportable laptop or 2in1? I know that the current political climate may make a Huawei unit with Windows-on-ARM difficult, but it's something I would otherwise expect.
    2. Is that second big NPU core somehow put to use for the 5G functionality? I don't know enough about the ins and outs of 5G data transmission, but involving ML might help optimize bandwidth use. Any thoughts, also from Andrei? Thanks!
  • Ian Cutress - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    1. No truth. At this time Huawei isn't interested in Windows on Arm. They'll let that ecosystem grow first.

    2. The ML stuff for the 5G beam forming does happen on the NPU (confirmed with Huawei). Having 2 just makes it quicker, but it could be done with 1.
  • eastcoast_pete - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link

    Thanks Ian! Was hoping that Windows-on-Arm would move beyond the all Qualcomm, all the time show it is now. The A 76 or 77 is an attractive hardware platform for ultraportables, but not if it's a single vendor show. Those cores can run Linux and related (Chrome) quite well, too.
    Regarding the second question: Appreciate the information! I wonder how QC does their ML for beam forming. Maybe that's the reason for "AI" circuitry in the most recent Snapdragons?
  • cfenton - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Woof, compared to what we've been seeing in the past few years this is a very small improvement. They seem to have focused on 5G, which almost no one has right now, and the NPU. This is the third year dedicated "AI" cores have been in phones and I still haven't seen anything that uses them aside from a few built in apps. 2X performance sounds great, but they need to get better at explaining what that performance can be used for.

    Also, "Top-notch CPU Performance" ... as long as you ignore the A12.
  • ZolaIII - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Pufff all old teach except the modem and NPU. I mean not even LPDDR5 support?
  • Ian Cutress - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Still to expensive right now for GDDR5, apparently.
  • ZolaIII - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link

    Well any type of RAM is actually rather cheap now and their is a little to none benefit of adding more of it unless the ecosystem changes dramatically but I doubt that. I hope that whose a mistake in your writing, but hell why not the HMB is a big step up (20% CPU, 100% GPU & up to 200% for high parallel) well worth of the duble price for it while keeping power consumption under control.
  • imaheadcase - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    I think we all can agree the word "bifurcated" is just a awesome word.
  • PeachNCream - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    I'm thinking that phones could just include both SoCs so you could switch either one or the other on as needed without going through the trouble of redesigning the PCB. There's nothing at all complicated about a wiring dual socket motherboard in a phone and then a price premium could be charged to enable both SoCs at the same time for some dual socket performance. Or better yet, you could build a folding phone that has two individual screens on the inside and just put one SoC in each side so the end user simply opens it and uses whichever one is relevant to their available cellular carrier while the other one remains totally dark. Though they would have to wire some minor, but necessary component on the opposite side of each independent half so that people wouldn't be tempted to rip the useless other half off of the phone to have a lighter handset. Then just double up on the price and sell it as universally useful. Someone would buy it.
  • tuxRoller - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    No mm wave support?

    The only thing that looks interesting is the npu.
  • Raqia - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    I think their L4 or "smart cache" is an interesting development as well that partly keeps them up on pace with Qualcomm, Apple, and Samsung SoCs. The biggest new change seems to be the integrated 5G modem which is likely to be inferior to Qualcomm and Samsung implementations for a few generations. It consumes a whopping ~2.3B transistors and probably around 20mm^2 die area, has no mmWave support, and rumor has it that the initial version of their 5G software consumed 3GB of ram which may have improved in this implementation.

    I also wonder how the U.S. imposed Huawei tech embargo will affect their future SoCs, which may as a result continue to use warmed over CPU/GPU designs for the next few generations.
  • Ian Cutress - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    That 2.3B also includes the double size NPU
  • Raqia - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    Good catch, thanks for that. Huawei is also making comparisons of the Kirin 990 at 7nm to the combined areas of competitor SoC + 5G modems, the latter of which both competitors have fabbed in 10nm rather than 7nm and has extra pad area versus an integrated SoC. Would be very curious about the relative performance/efficiency and resource consumption of each as well.

    It generally looks like a solid YoY update for the Kirin on paper, but the devil is in the details. Have you guys looked at more recent Huawei models for continued GPU "driver optimizations?"
  • Ian Cutress - Saturday, September 7, 2019 - link

    Huawei's GPU Turbo is a good technology that helps performance. I'm surprised the other vendors aren't doing something similar. But it's a per-game technology, so it's a case of updating that list for support
  • Raqia - Saturday, September 7, 2019 - link

    I also meant actually turning on anisotropic filtering when indicated.
  • RSAUser - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link

    There is a notable quality difference though, so I'd not enable it for a majority of games as they run fine.

    Rather it should be the game developer adding more optimizations than "GPU turbo" or rather graphics downgrade.
  • s.yu - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link

    That's interesting, last time I checked Balong 5000 was on 7nm, was it just Balong or was I mistaken?
  • Raqia - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link

    My point was that this comparison is flawed and will not hold when compared to 5G SoC solutions from Qualcomm and Samsung. The figures they were using for Qualcomm and Samsung are artificially large and will likely be better than Huawei's 7nm SoC when they integrate their 5G solution in 7nm.
  • s.yu - Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - link

    Ah, sorry, I skipped a few words there.
  • peevee - Friday, September 13, 2019 - link

    mmwave is useless, it is absorbed by everything, including humidity in the air.
  • Lolimaster - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    For A73-75 based atm socs there's barely a need to upgrade to A76 based socs, 2021 socs seem like better candidate.
  • FunBunny2 - Friday, September 6, 2019 - link

    it takes us to page 7 to point out:
    "The Kirin 990 5G is a true unified design, supporting Sub-6 GHz 5G networks on both SA and NSA architectures."

    that's not Real 5G, now is it?
  • Ian Cutress - Saturday, September 7, 2019 - link

    Sub 6 GHz? Yes. 5G is both Sub 6 and mmWave.
  • FunBunny2 - Saturday, September 7, 2019 - link

    "5G is both Sub 6 and mmWave"

    since Sub 6 is just the same as 4G/LTE, it's Fake News to call it 5G.

    "
    Sub-6, or what the FCC calls mid-band, refers to the frequencies under 6GHz but above the low-band frequencies. This currently includes 2.5Ghz, 3.5Ghz, and 3.7-4.2Ghz. As time passes, more frequencies can be utilized that were previously reserved for defunct technologies like over the air television.

    Sprint has been deploying 5G service on its 2.5Ghz bands which is currently the lowest of any provider, allowing it to leapfrog its competitors in coverage. This also means that this deployment of 5G will likely never match the top speeds on offer from providers that use millimeter wave, thanks to narrower bands of available frequencies available."

    here: https://www.androidcentral.com/explaining-5g-milli...

    go look at the bar graph showing what freqs belong to which 'G'. Sub 6 is a scam.
  • helloworld_chip - Saturday, September 7, 2019 - link

    From what I have read, mmWave's power & coverage looks really terrible (or nearly unusable)

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/artic...
  • FunBunny2 - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link

    "From what I have read, mmWave's power & coverage looks really terrible (or nearly unusable)"

    ding, ding, ding, ding!!! coming to a theater near you.
  • s.yu - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link

    The whole 5G concept is a scam, from this PoV sub 6 is the more practical implementation meaning less sacrificing usability on the consumer's side in this new arms race.
  • zsydeepsky - Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - link

    NOAA also warned that mmWave 5G coverage will impact its ability for the weather forecast.
    the signal will also be significantly impacted by weather, like heavy rain can cause 5G blackout.
    so, it seems both irresponsible & impractical to use mmWave for 5G.
  • FunBunny2 - Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - link

    "mmWave 5G coverage will impact its ability for the weather forecast.
    the signal will also be significantly impacted by weather"

    when I read that, I went looking for my tin-foil hat. well...
    https://physicsworld.com/a/debate-rages-over-5g-im...

    I guess Trump will make the decision based on his stable genius brain.
  • helloworld_chip - Saturday, September 7, 2019 - link

    To Andrei: Rumor was saying Huawei has spent a lot of effort on improving CPU energy efficiency instead of increasing performance like Q (raising freq in 855+), which is why small perf improvement out there. I would be really glad to see Andrei to check these 2 chips out regarding the efficiency. This strategy does make sense for most customers though. Also with a new type of cache, also interesting to check how DDR latency is impacted.
  • sweetca - Saturday, September 7, 2019 - link

    Not buying Chinese spy crap. Prefer my spying domestic.
  • Sailor23M - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link

    Huawei has lost almost all brand recognition outside of China due to the alleged technology stealing and copying, if the Chinese government was’nt helping them they would have been sued for copyright infringement already.
  • s.yu - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link

    It's true that they've stolen a lot and they've never stopped stealing and faking, but they always get away with it and unfortunately I don't believe their brand recognition has taken the hit they deserve.
  • levizx - Thursday, September 12, 2019 - link

    So is Apple, Samsung, or any other brands.
  • s.yu - Friday, September 13, 2019 - link

    Ah, the typical Huawei apologist.
    Not on the same level. Not even close. I keep a short list of Huawei lies and scams yet I can guarantee you won't be able to make a list about Apple or Samsung that comes close to its length. Huawei takes decadence to a whole new level.
  • airdrifting - Monday, September 9, 2019 - link

    You sound like you are actually important enough to worth spy on, lol. Typical mainstream media brainwashed retard like you is the main reason this country went to shit.
  • WPX00 - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link

    don't believe their claims that A76 is more optimized etc. There is one reason exclusively that they are using 76 series parts, and that is that ARM isn't selling them the 77 parts.
  • Achtung_BG - Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - link

    ARM China license for china fabless company

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-softbank-group-...

    https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/ar...
  • regsEx - Sunday, September 8, 2019 - link

    4K60 recording?
  • peevee - Friday, September 13, 2019 - link

    "A new leap forward in graphics: performance 6% up"

    Muahahahahaha.
  • s.yu - Saturday, September 14, 2019 - link

    Moreover they claim an efficiency advantage over Adreno and I'm highly skeptical of that.

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